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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>meeting 2021-01-12 · wg-traits · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/index.html">wg-traits</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html">meeting 2021-01-12</a></h3>

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<a name="222492538"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222492538" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222492538">(Jan 12 2021 at 20:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="692">@WG-traits</span>, assuming <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> is around, we'll be having our first meeting in 2021 in 9ish minutes</p>



<a name="222493201"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222493201" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222493201">(Jan 12 2021 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>Here's a rough list of points we can discuss (a lot):</p>
<ul>
<li>CI: mdbook-mermaid caching - do we want it?</li>
<li>Open PRs<ul>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/80679">#80679</a><ul>
<li>Good to go I think, waiting on r+ and FCP</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/79951">#79951</a><ul>
<li>Very straightforward, should be good. </li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/76814">#76814</a><ul>
<li>Blocked at least on <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/80679">#80679</a>, maybe other cleanup/split PRs. Needs a thorough review.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/673">chalk#673</a></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/671">chalk#671</a><ul>
<li>How do we want to handle bound vars in environment?</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/664">chalk#664</a></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/661">chalk#661</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>What do we want to do with -Z chalk issues on rust-lang/rust?</li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/234">chalk#234</a> - some thoughts</li>
<li>Next sprint/items<ul>
<li>Type library status</li>
<li>Generators</li>
<li>Placeholder canonicalization</li>
<li><code>ReEarlyBound</code> and <code>Param</code></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>



<a name="222493235"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222493235" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222493235">(Jan 12 2021 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>wave</p>



<a name="222493391"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222493391" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222493391">(Jan 12 2021 at 20:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>I can here today : but I will be 15 mnutes late :P</p>



<a name="222493406"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222493406" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222493406">(Jan 12 2021 at 20:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>although I'm monitoring</p>



<a name="222493603"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222493603" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222493603">(Jan 12 2021 at 20:59)</a>:</h4>
<p><span aria-label="wave" class="emoji emoji-1f44b" role="img" title="wave">:wave:</span> I will be reading the meeting. Interested in joining this effort :)</p>



<a name="222493771"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222493771" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222493771">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay, well, in that case</p>



<a name="222493793"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222493793" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222493793">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hello <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="692">@WG-traits</span>! Welcome to 2021</p>



<a name="222493895"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222493895" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222493895">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I feel like I might be monologuing for the first bit of this meeting...but I guess we'll see</p>



<a name="222493983"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222493983" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222493983">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>Anyways, let me just start by sort of summarizing where we ended last year</p>



<a name="222494054"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494054" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494054">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I meant to write up a blog post covering this but didn't. Now I figure I'll do a "2020 in review, now here's where we expect 2021 to go" sort of thing)</p>



<a name="222494092"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494092" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494092">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>But, last year was actually super productive</p>



<a name="222494189"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494189" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494189">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>Towards the end of the year though, a big focus was around the shared type library</p>



<a name="222494223"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494223" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494223">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>which is now officially split out in rustc</p>



<a name="222494234"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494234" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494234">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>though a very small portion right now</p>



<a name="222494298"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494298" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494298">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>The idea is we'll start to move things out of <code>rustc_middle</code> in pieces</p>



<a name="222494333"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494333" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494333">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>(<a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/80679">#80679</a> is relevant here)</p>



<a name="222494403"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494403" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494403">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>I personally made a lot of progress on the tracking bound vars portion of this effort (<a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/76814">#76814</a>)</p>



<a name="222494479"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494479" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494479">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>And <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> did start a branch on the <code>Param</code>/<code>ReEarlyBound</code> side of things</p>



<a name="222494500"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494500" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494500">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>which are two of the big blockers imo</p>



<a name="222494558"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494558" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494558">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't want to go to much into that yet though</p>



<a name="222494612"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494612" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494612">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>Instead, I think we should start by sort of going over the progress that's been made since the last meeting</p>



<a name="222494637"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494637" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494637">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>(we/I)</p>



<a name="222494754"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494754" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494754">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>Looks like's theres some cleanup PRs, which is nice</p>



<a name="222494783"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494783" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494783">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:08)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="125131">detrumi</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12/near/222494754">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Looks like's theres some cleanup PRs, which is nice</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yes, I'll get there :)</p>



<a name="222494811"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494811" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494811">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>There's 2 rustc PRs that haven't been mentioned yet</p>



<a name="222494865"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494865" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494865">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:09)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12/near/222494333">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>(<a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/80679">#80679</a> is relevant here)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>whoops I meant <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/79951">#79951</a></p>



<a name="222494983"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222494983" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222494983">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:10)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/80679">#80679</a> was one of the two I was thinking. Which essentially just removes <code>PredicateKind::Atom</code> in favor of always having <code>Binder&lt;PredicateAtom&gt;</code></p>



<a name="222495029"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495029" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495029">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>Though, by the time you get to cleanup and such, you just end up with a <code>PredicateKind</code> that was <code>PredicateAtom</code></p>



<a name="222495053"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495053" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495053">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me goes to get a link</p>



<a name="222495087"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495087" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495087">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>relevant MCP: <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/397">https://github.com/rust-lang/compiler-team/issues/397</a></p>



<a name="222495112"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495112" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495112">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>This is also how Chalk now does it: there is no longer an <code>Implies</code> variant</p>



<a name="222495219"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495219" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495219">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:12)</a>:</h4>
<p>The other PR is a chalk upgrade (<a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/80593">#80593</a>), but that is blocked on Chalk PRs which I'm about to get to</p>



<a name="222495293"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495293" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495293">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>But, I wanted to point that out, because using the fixed chalk as a base, I redid the <code>compare-mode=chalk</code> issue triage</p>



<a name="222495305"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495305" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495305">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>Stream: <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/rustc.20test.20suite.20triage">https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/rustc.20test.20suite.20triage</a></p>



<a name="222495335"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495335" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495335">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:13)</a>:</h4>
<p>Long story short, the number of panicking tests is halved</p>



<a name="222495435"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495435" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495435">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>About a 1000 more tests pass outright</p>



<a name="222495471"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495471" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495471">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:14)</a>:</h4>
<p>But a large number of tests just outright fail</p>



<a name="222495525"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495525" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495525">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>Which I actually think might be somewhat fixed by <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/673">chalk#673</a></p>



<a name="222495555"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495555" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495555">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I'll get to that in a bit)</p>



<a name="222495576"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495576" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495576">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>Now, chalk PRs</p>



<a name="222495688"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495688" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495688">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>I opened up a big cleanup PR in <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/661">chalk#661</a>, but I think most is around <code>chalk-engine</code> only</p>



<a name="222495723"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495723" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495723">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>(<a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/661">chalk#661</a>)</p>



<a name="222495736"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495736" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495736">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>Basically, a lot of it is removing the abstraction of <code>TruncatingInferenceTable</code> that's not really necessary anymore</p>



<a name="222495777"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495777" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495777">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>But also, I <em>finally</em> was able to remove <code>CanonicalStrand</code></p>



<a name="222495794"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495794" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495794">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>which was like one of the first PRs I ever made to Chalk</p>



<a name="222495809"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495809" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495809">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>And it didn't land then, because it made things much more complicated</p>



<a name="222495818"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495818" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495818">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>heh :)</p>



<a name="222495836"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495836" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495836">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>but now, instead of <code>CanonicalStrand</code>, we can just do <code>Canonical&lt;Strand&gt;</code></p>



<a name="222495922"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495922" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495922">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>next pr</p>



<a name="222495942"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222495942" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222495942">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:18)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/664">chalk#664</a></p>



<a name="222496006"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496006" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496006">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>Basically, <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="218805">@Mark Drobnak</span> noticed that the function-related tests weren't running anymore</p>



<a name="222496017"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496017" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496017">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>And turns out they were broken</p>



<a name="222496033"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496033" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496033">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me tries to remember</p>



<a name="222496035"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496035" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496035">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>heh oh dear</p>



<a name="222496138"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496138" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496138">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, the details aren't super important to discuss here</p>



<a name="222496184"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496184" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496184">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>But another nice sidepoint is we actually <code>Flounder</code> for things like <code>exists&lt;T&gt; { T: Sized }</code></p>



<a name="222496202"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496202" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496202">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>err, ambiguous, not flounder</p>



<a name="222496223"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496223" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496223">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>because we now take into account builtin types</p>



<a name="222496254"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496254" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496254">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:21)</a>:</h4>
<p>(need to remember to link/close that issue)</p>



<a name="222496329"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496329" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496329">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>At this point, the changes look good, but I wrote half the code, so I'm not r+ing it (nudge <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> )</p>



<a name="222496358"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496358" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496358">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:22)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/671">chalk#671</a></p>



<a name="222496363"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496363" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496363">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, it seems clear I can start doing reviews...</p>



<a name="222496405"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496405" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496405">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:22)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12/near/222496358">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/671">chalk#671</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p>This one is...weird</p>



<a name="222496433"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496433" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496433">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>And we really should discuss</p>



<a name="222496456"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496456" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496456">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>This popped up when I did the Chalk upgrade</p>



<a name="222496466"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496466" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496466">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>(in rustc)</p>



<a name="222496517"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496517" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496517">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>and highlights a flaw in how we were/are handling bound vars in the environment</p>



<a name="222496596"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496596" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496596">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>hmm</p>



<a name="222496603"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496603" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496603">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>Gosh this was already two weeks ago</p>



<a name="222496629"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496629" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496629">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>There's two sort of orthogonal "fixes" here</p>



<a name="222496639"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496639" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496639">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>Well, one fix, one patch</p>



<a name="222496725"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496725" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496725">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>And actually, now that I think about this again, the "fix" might not be correct</p>



<a name="222496852"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496852" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496852">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>But anyways, what I first did was subst out the canonically-bound vars from the clauses  with the vars we get when creating the inference tables</p>



<a name="222496872"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496872" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496872">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>(no, that's right)</p>



<a name="222496932"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222496932" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222496932">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>We handle bound vars correctly for the actual goal (because we generalize where necessary), but the problem comes with the environment</p>



<a name="222497007"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497007" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497007">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>The other bit of this, is a bit more tricky</p>



<a name="222497059"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497059" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497059">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>And happens because of the way we set up <code>ClauseBuilder</code></p>



<a name="222497129"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497129" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497129">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>mm</p>



<a name="222497151"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497151" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497151">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>in particular, because we always wrap clauses in a <code>ForAll</code>, if we haven't explicitly added a <code>with_binders</code>, we shift all bound vars in the clause</p>



<a name="222497158"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497158" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497158">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>do you want to talk about it here, or should I just schedule some time to read it through?</p>



<a name="222497202"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497202" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497202">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:29)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12/near/222497158">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>do you want to talk about it here, or should I just schedule some time to read it through?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Let's fit it in after getting through the agenda if we have time</p>



<a name="222497274"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497274" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497274">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:30)</a>:</h4>
<p>But I can also schedule some time to discuss</p>



<a name="222497339"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497339" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497339">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:30)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12/near/222497151">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>in particular, because we always wrap clauses in a <code>ForAll</code>, if we haven't explicitly added a <code>with_binders</code>, we shift all bound vars in the clause</p>
</blockquote>
<p>And this assumption is wrong when we have bound vars from the <code>Canonical</code></p>



<a name="222497397"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497397" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497397">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:31)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12/near/222497274">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>But I can also schedule some time to discuss</p>
</blockquote>
<p>but definitely take some time to read it through regardless :)</p>



<a name="222497431"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497431" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497431">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ugh I might be misremembering</p>



<a name="222497461"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497461" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497461">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>Because I do remember that the second problem I ran into only applied when creating <code>Constraints</code></p>



<a name="222497569"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497569" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497569">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>Specifically, the <code>Enviroment</code> of <code>Constraints</code></p>



<a name="222497591"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497591" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497591">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>So, as a patch I just always have an empty environment for them here</p>



<a name="222497656"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497656" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497656">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>Which, for now is <em>okay</em> (not great) because neither rustc nor rust-analyzer handle those</p>



<a name="222497688"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497688" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497688">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>And we're probably going to redesign around polonious integration <em>anyways</em></p>



<a name="222497703"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497703" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497703">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>But yeah, it's a problem :)</p>



<a name="222497727"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497727" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497727">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>For now, I'll move on. We can circle back if we have time and want to discuss</p>



<a name="222497755"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497755" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497755">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:33)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/673">chalk#673</a></p>



<a name="222497838"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497838" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497838">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:34)</a>:</h4>
<p>So, this was one of a few bugs that have been found so far related to the <code>Variance</code> change</p>



<a name="222497926"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497926" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497926">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>The last one, we basically fixed by making sure that <code>TyKind::Int</code> and <code>TyKind::Float</code>s always related with <code>Invariant</code></p>



<a name="222497985"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222497985" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222497985">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>But this time, the solution is to track the <code>Variance</code> when generalizing</p>



<a name="222498016"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498016" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498016">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah</p>



<a name="222498054"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498054" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498054">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>the rustc code does this</p>



<a name="222498064"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498064" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498064">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes</p>



<a name="222498069"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498069" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498069">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>it does</p>



<a name="222498092"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498092" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498092">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>By basically reusing <code>Relate</code> there</p>



<a name="222498133"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498133" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498133">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>and relating the generalizing ty with itself</p>



<a name="222498155"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498155" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498155">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>Which...we might just want to adopt</p>



<a name="222498238"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498238" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498238">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>Basically, this is needed because if we are in an <code>Invariant</code> context, we don't want to create a new infer var</p>



<a name="222498296"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498296" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498296">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>right</p>



<a name="222498298"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498298" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498298">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>because we basically end up with goals like <code>?0 &lt;: ?1</code> and <code>?1 &lt;: ?0</code>, which aren't solvable</p>



<a name="222498310"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498310" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498310">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think this is the same reason i added that to rustc ;)</p>



<a name="222498350"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498350" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498350">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:38)</a>:</h4>
<p>This was actually the same sort of situation we ran into last time</p>



<a name="222498388"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498388" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498388">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>Where I had originally just proposed to take those two goals and instead unify them</p>



<a name="222498402"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498402" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498402">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>but there were concerns :)</p>



<a name="222498443"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498443" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498443">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>right</p>



<a name="222498493"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498493" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498493">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>Otherwise, this was fairly straightforward once I realized the problem and solution</p>



<a name="222498518"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498518" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498518">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>Except for <em>one</em> thing: <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/pull/673/files#diff-7f3d7ff142e3a29b6f04b7bafde8a4d25d17cdd45dd632782d81105f905cced7R80-R94">https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/pull/673/files#diff-7f3d7ff142e3a29b6f04b7bafde8a4d25d17cdd45dd632782d81105f905cced7R80-R94</a></p>



<a name="222498584"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498584" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498584">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think this was happening because in one place, we relate two inference vars in a non-<code>Invariant</code> context, then later relate them in <code>Invariant</code></p>



<a name="222498591"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498591" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498591">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>but we had also generated the goal</p>



<a name="222498650"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498650" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498650">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm not sure if rustc handles this by just checking the trivially true <code>^0.0 &lt;: ^0.0</code> case later on</p>



<a name="222498721"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498721" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498721">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>but here I opted to catch them before returning the <code>RelationResult</code> at all</p>



<a name="222498732"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498732" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498732">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>hmm</p>



<a name="222498766"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498766" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498766">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>seems lke a good thing to pare out, regardless</p>



<a name="222498778"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498778" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498778">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>could be both</p>



<a name="222498797"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498797" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498797">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, I wasn't sure the best thing here</p>



<a name="222498804"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498804" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498804">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>i.e., be able to handle the goal when it arises, but remove them from the list too</p>



<a name="222498847"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498847" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498847">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hmm, I would have to think of an example where the goal <em>could</em> arise is we remove them early</p>



<a name="222498946"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498946" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498946">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>Anyways, like before, let's move on and discuss details later</p>



<a name="222498954"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498954" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498954">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>Starting to run short on time</p>



<a name="222498975"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222498975" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222498975">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>That's it for PRs though (what a doozy)</p>



<a name="222499043"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499043" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499043">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>So, one thing to discuss that's pretty small, and doesn't matter a ton:</p>



<a name="222499092"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499092" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499092">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>Since there was recently a security vuln for mdbook, there was a PR upgrade mdbook to 0.4.5</p>



<a name="222499154"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499154" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499154">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>In addition,  mdbook-mermaid was updated</p>



<a name="222499175"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499175" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499175">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>but no longer published pre-compiled binaries</p>



<a name="222499197"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499197" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499197">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>which means now we build it during CI</p>



<a name="222499216"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499216" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499216">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>we could maybe cache that</p>



<a name="222499241"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499241" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499241">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>see <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/672">chalk#672</a></p>



<a name="222499252"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499252" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499252">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:47)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12/near/222498975">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>That's it for PRs though (what a doozy)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>nice</p>



<a name="222499288"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499288" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499288">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>again, pretty moot because we don't really need short CI times</p>



<a name="222499298"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499298" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499298">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>but anyone has thoughts, would love to hear</p>



<a name="222499338"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499338" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499338">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>Next, I wanted to quickly discuss the -Z chalk issues on rust-lang/rust</p>



<a name="222499385"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499385" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499385">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>Particularly, what do we want to do right now</p>



<a name="222499400"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499400" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499400">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>(and additionally the WG-compiler-traits label)</p>



<a name="222499434"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499434" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499434">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>is there a listing of <code>-Zchalk</code> issues?</p>



<a name="222499440"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499440" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499440">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>Particularly, there's the <code>-Z chalk</code> tracking issue, which obviously should stay</p>



<a name="222499447"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499447" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499447">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes one sec</p>



<a name="222499481"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499481" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499481">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:49)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Achalk-integration">https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Achalk-integration</a></p>



<a name="222499527"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499527" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499527">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>There are <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/49177">#49177</a> and <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/55100">#55100</a> which I think should just be closed at this point</p>



<a name="222499621"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499621" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499621">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>(though <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/55100">#55100</a> was brought up in the rustc-dev-guide channel and will/should be closed during some cleanup there)</p>



<a name="222499684"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499684" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499684">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:50)</a>:</h4>
<p><a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/57193">#57193</a> also should be closed; it's the old integration and does actually work now anyways</p>



<a name="222499735"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499735" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499735">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>But the issues to discuss the most are the "new" ones that are relevant to the current integration</p>



<a name="222499766"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499766" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499766">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>Particularly, do we <em>really</em> want to leave these open</p>



<a name="222499873"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499873" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499873">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>Imo, considering how experimental the integration is, and the fact that we <em>know</em> so many "compare-mode=chalk" tests fail</p>



<a name="222499907"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499907" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499907">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think we should just not leave <code>-Z chalk</code> issues open right now</p>



<a name="222499912"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499912" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499912">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah</p>



<a name="222499918"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499918" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499918">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh</p>



<a name="222499928"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499928" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499928">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:52)</a>:</h4>
<p><em>not leave</em></p>



<a name="222499933"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499933" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499933">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah, ok ;)</p>



<a name="222499967"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499967" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499967">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think i agree</p>



<a name="222499974"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499974" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499974">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>i usually find issues at this stage kind of unhelpful</p>



<a name="222499991"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222499991" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222499991">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>Exactly</p>



<a name="222500004"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500004" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500004">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>unless they are very specific things we are delegating or recruiting for</p>



<a name="222500015"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500015" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500015">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, especially when the backtrace mentions <code>Unimplemented</code></p>



<a name="222500034"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500034" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500034">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:53)</a>:</h4>
<p>I <em>would</em> close these myself but I don't have triage perms</p>



<a name="222500078"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500078" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500078">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>On a related note: <code>WG-compiler-traits</code> label:</p>



<a name="222500144"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500144" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500144">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would like to try to get it added to relevant issues/PRs that we're tracking here</p>



<a name="222500160"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500160" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500160">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>For my own organization :)</p>



<a name="222500202"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500202" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500202">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah</p>



<a name="222500215"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500215" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500215">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>we ought to be able to get triage perms too, probably</p>



<a name="222500231"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500231" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500231">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I can do those kinds of things</p>



<a name="222500236"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500236" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500236">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>And, I added <code>chalk-solve</code>, <code>chalk-engine</code>, <code>chalk-recursive</code>, and <code>chalk-ir</code> labels to the Chalk repo to better categorize issues :)</p>



<a name="222500243"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500243" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500243">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>And applied a bunch</p>



<a name="222500251"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500251" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500251">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>Which should also help</p>



<a name="222500274"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500274" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500274">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think you can ask rustbot to add labels on rust-lang/rust?</p>



<a name="222500346"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500346" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500346">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yes, labels are fine I think. Idk about closing issues</p>



<a name="222500399"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500399" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500399">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>Okay nearly done</p>



<a name="222500464"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500464" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500464">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>No discussion needed here <em>now</em>, but I thought a little bit about <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/issues/234">chalk#234</a> (ambiguity in associated types in chalk-engine)</p>



<a name="222500496"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500496" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500496">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>and even though I think the "best" solution would be something like congruence edges or something</p>



<a name="222500508"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500508" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500508">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>I had tried a little locally to implement the "Cut" operator</p>



<a name="222500540"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500540" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500540">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:57)</a>:</h4>
<p>Which <code>chalk-recursive</code> sort of does with the <code>ClausePriority</code></p>



<a name="222500590"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500590" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500590">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>But, I didn't get very far</p>



<a name="222500612"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500612" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500612">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>But it's on my radar :) As I wait for reviews for other things</p>



<a name="222500695"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500695" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500695">(Jan 12 2021 at 21:59)</a>:</h4>
<p>And in the last 2 minutes: We should discuss if we still want to do sprints or not. I feel like the were great at the beginning of the year last year. But the last couple didn't seem to have a ton of engagment</p>



<a name="222500786"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500786" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500786">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Part of this is because we are starting to get to problems where you either have a bunch of simple related work (like moving types into <code>rustc_type_ir</code>) or very big tasks (like bound var refactor)</p>



<a name="222500842"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500842" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500842">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd like peoples thoughts</p>



<a name="222500863"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500863" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500863">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>But we're at the hour</p>



<a name="222500898"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222500898" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222500898">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>So we should plan to make next week a "planning week"</p>



<a name="222501069"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501069" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501069">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>Anyways, thanks everyone :)</p>



<a name="222501071"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501071" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501071">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah</p>



<a name="222501076"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501076" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501076">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm thinking about one othr thing</p>



<a name="222501085"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501085" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501085">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>let me float it here at the end of the hour</p>



<a name="222501129"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501129" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501129">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>also let me say <strong>thank you</strong> for that overview :)</p>



<a name="222501133"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501133" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501133">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, I'm here and can still discuss</p>



<a name="222501159"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501159" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501159">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>one thing i'm wondering about is the question of <strong>sprints</strong> -- but not in the sense that this group has traditionally used the term</p>



<a name="222501182"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501182" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501182">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>we were talking in some recent compiler team meetings about having designated sprint weeks</p>



<a name="222501203"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501203" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501203">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>Haha, I knew you were going to say that</p>



<a name="222501206"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501206" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501206">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>the idea being that everybody shows up for like 4 hours a day during a week to focus hard</p>



<a name="222501221"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501221" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501221">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>i feel like this might be really useful to me</p>



<a name="222501236"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501236" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501236">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I don't know whether it is plausible for the rest of you :)</p>



<a name="222501264"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501264" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501264">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>I know for some people it works well and for others less well</p>



<a name="222501319"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501319" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501319">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>In theory, that sounds awesome. In practice, I think it would have to be in the evening for me</p>



<a name="222501399"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501399" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501399">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>That's rather unfortunate for European times though</p>



<a name="222501414"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501414" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501414">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>hmm</p>



<a name="222501436"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501436" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501436">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>I don't think i could do it in <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="232957">@Jack Huey</span>'s evening times ;)</p>



<a name="222501448"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501448" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501448">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>it may be that the idea doesn't work so well for this group</p>



<a name="222501461"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501461" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501461">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>But honestly, if we could just get you (<span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> ) to dedicate 4 hours a day for a week every couple of months, that would be cool</p>



<a name="222501478"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501478" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501478">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>that was the other thing i was wondering</p>



<a name="222501503"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501503" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501503">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>if it makes sense to do even if not everyone can participate</p>



<a name="222501513"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501513" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501513">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>If other people want to do that, I can certainly be <em>around</em> to chat</p>



<a name="222501516"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501516" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501516">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>(I think <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116266">@Santiago Pastorino</span> you were pretty excited about this idea)</p>



<a name="222501521"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501521" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501521">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>it also doesn't have to be 100% sync i guess</p>



<a name="222501543"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501543" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501543">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>Maybe not continuously, but off and on</p>



<a name="222501555"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501555" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501555">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>what I mean is</p>



<a name="222501565"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501565" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501565">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>like if we had folks doing it in the morning</p>



<a name="222501576"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501576" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501576">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>and other people show up in the evening or whatever</p>



<a name="222501626"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501626" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501626">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>it'll still help in the sense that we have context</p>



<a name="222501636"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501636" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501636">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, that too</p>



<a name="222501637"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501637" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501637">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway I would ike to try it, for sure</p>



<a name="222501654"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501654" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501654">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I feel like I need a kick in the pants :)</p>



<a name="222501656"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501656" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501656">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:06)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12/near/222501516">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>(I think <span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116266">Santiago Pastorino</span> you were pretty excited about this idea)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I have zero idea about you guys are doing :)</p>



<a name="222501684"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501684" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501684">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I meant the idea of doing concentrated sprints</p>



<a name="222501693"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501693" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501693">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>not any particular technical thing</p>



<a name="222501744"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501744" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501744">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:07)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12/near/222501637">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>anyway I would ike to try it, for sure</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I mean, I am 100% up for planning a week to do this, instead of planning a "traditional" sprint to start</p>



<a name="222501798"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501798" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501798">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>But I definitely think it would be under the caveat that: most people would probably not be able to work in sync during the week</p>



<a name="222501812"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501812" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501812">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:07)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12/near/222501684">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I meant the idea of doing concentrated sprints</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah I got that, I just meant that I'd be very unknowleadgeable, but it may be good to learn and catch up I guess</p>



<a name="222501903"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501903" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501903">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>ah</p>



<a name="222501921"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501921" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501921">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, yeah, as ever, it'd be a way to "get into" things</p>



<a name="222501939"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting%202021-01-12/near/222501939" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/meeting.202021-01-12.html#222501939">(Jan 12 2021 at 22:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>everybody has to start <em>somewhere</em></p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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